DIFFERENCES BETWEEN PRINCESS HIME AND GOTHIC LOLITA: JAPANESE STYLE TRIBE BREAKDOWN.

Baby the stars shine bright ad, Gothic Lolita rococo princess. Tokyo Marie Antoinette costume. Hime Lolita, cute Japanese doll girls.

Nice discussion about Japan’s hime gyaru (princess gal) fashion! I think the general sentiment is that these pink ladies are a different beast from Lolita, which grew out of the 1980s Nagomu Records alt-music crowd. In other words, we’re comparing spoiled Stepford types to “arty girls in the grips of complicated relationships with gender, femininity, and the painful process of growing up.” (Japanese Schoolgirl Inferno, p.112)

Or, as Patrick Macias puts it: “The Lolita look evolved out of the Japanese underground scene. The Hime Gals (bless them) seem to have scant in their pretty little heads but the desire to play dress-up and look like a million bucks. If both the Hime Gals and the Lolitas seem to belong together in the same rococo painting, it’s purely a weird accident of parallel evolution.” (Japanese Schoolgirl Inferno, p.101)

W. David Marx adds that the Western media often confuses “hime gyaru” of the Koakuma Ageha stripe, “princess-y” Oneekei girls from Ray and CanCam, and hime-esque gothloli. Hime Lolita, as typified in the BTSSB ad and Kera spread above, is undoubtedly distinct from the Jesus Diamante photos I posted yesterday.

Big Lolita doll bow, Angelic Pretty pink dress with corset, bell skirt. Tokyo princess style, Jesus Diamante hime-kei fashion. Liz Lisa, Princesses fashion in Japan.

What some of the technical differences? (Left: Angelic Pretty. Center/right: Jesus Diamante)
† Some of you mentioned Lolita’s signature bell skirt worn with a petticoat, which is absent in hime.
† The Angelic Pretty dress has a childlike air and 17-19th century tailoring, while the Diamantees are sleek and modern.
† Lolita is modest – puff sleeves, tights worn underneath – while hime arms and legs are usually bare.
† Let’s just say we wouldn’t catch Mana in a bouffant with ringlets! Giant doll bow over Mrs. Sweeney hair – absolutely.

Tokyo princess style, Jesus Diamante hime-kei fashion. Liz Lisa, Princesses fashion in Japan.

† The Angelic Pretty skirt (bottom left) is typically bell-shaped and loaded with ruffles and bows – unlike the straight-hanging Jesus Diamante one (top left).
† I could picture the Angelic Pretty top (center) on a Jane Austen heroine. The Diamante top (right) belongs on a hip hop heiress; look beyond the ruffles and the girl is wearing a zip-up sweatshirt!

Sweet Lolita Bell skirt with lace, ruffles, bows from Angelic Pretty. Pink ruffled Victorian top. Hime gyaru princess shirt.

† When I was a little girl, I owned pink party shoes like the ones on the left. Lolita’s innocence contrasts starkly with hime’s sultry and sexy (center, right).

Jesus Diamante shoes, hime gyaru gal fashion from Marui Young. Angelic Pretty sweet lolita boots and little girl pink party shoes.

† The brand names say it all. Diamante (top) = glitzy bling. Angelic Pretty (bottom) = playful, pure, kawaii.

Tokyo princess style, Jesus Diamante hime-kei fashion. Liz Lisa, Princesses fashion in Japan.

† Hime makeup is typified by exagerrated lashes and Kohl-rimmed eyes (top). The Lolita looks from the December Kera (bottom) are subtle takes on Goth/Punk.

What else sets Hime apart from Lolita? What are your thoughts on mixing and matching the two?

The Reader Appreciation Week contests close Sunday at midnight, Pacific Time… so get your entries in stat! Coming up soon: blog posts on fairy-kei, 80s fashion, a hair accessory DIY, Visual Kei makeup, and much more.

Song of the Day #47: BLOOD – Sweetest Disease

This entry was posted on Sunday, February 15th, 2009 at 11:18 am and is filed under Fashion, Tokyo Gothic Lolita. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. Both comments and pings are currently closed.

RED

CUTE!
Visual Rose

Cute :D I like both styles- Hime Gyaru and Lolita.
I think, Hime-inspired hairstyles or accesories are very cute with Lolita but there should be the Lolita look to it, so the Hime-elements shouldn..t be too overwhelming.
http://www.lacarmina.com lacarmina

Some of the Jesus Diamante shoes are pretty amazing!
http://teefie.deviantart.com Teefie

Mixing and matching the two would be really really cute. Probably be kind of like Sweet Lolita but a little more in your face.
cole

I sense a bit of bias in this 'article.' Although the same could be said for any article that you write.

Just like lolita, there are different types of hime-kei style. Open up Koakuma Ageha and you'll see that there's a lot more that fit under the category than Jesus Diamante.

Lolita = emphasis on extravagantly elaborate clothing.
Hime-kei (or anything that falls under the gyaru genre) = emphasis on hair and make up.
http://www.lacarmina.com lacarmina

I'm the first to admit I'm not as familiar with Hime fashion – hence opening up the subject for discussion and rebuttal. I'd be interested to look at Koakuma Ageha.
http://fashionablycute.net Olga

There are scans of Ageha in LJ :)
http://primthings.blogspot.com/ chelsea

I think the 'dress code' for Hime style always looks much more limiting than lolita, mainly in colour and fabric patterns.
As for mixing them, I say mash it up, add a splah of colour(or black), and work your Holi/Lime creation!
RED

CUTE!
Visual Rose

Cute :D I like both styles- Hime Gyaru and Lolita.
I think, Hime-inspired hairstyles or accesories are very cute with Lolita but there should be the Lolita look to it, so the Hime-elements shouldn..t be too overwhelming.

http://www.lacarmina.com lacarmina

Some of the Jesus Diamante shoes are pretty amazing!

http://teefie.deviantart.com Teefie

Mixing and matching the two would be really really cute. Probably be kind of like Sweet Lolita but a little more in your face.
cole

I sense a bit of bias in this ‘article.’ Although the same could be said for any article that you write.

Just like lolita, there are different types of hime-kei style. Open up Koakuma Ageha and you’ll see that there’s a lot more that fit under the category than Jesus Diamante.

Lolita = emphasis on extravagantly elaborate clothing.
Hime-kei (or anything that falls under the gyaru genre) = emphasis on hair and make up.

http://www.lacarmina.com lacarmina

I’m the first to admit I’m not as familiar with Hime fashion – hence opening up the subject for discussion and rebuttal. I try to present some news or quotes, add my own two cents, and then see what everyone else thinks.

I’d be interested to look at Koakuma Ageha. :)

http://fashionablycute.net Olga

There are scans of Ageha in LJ :)

karmaneko

Hime is very beautiful – but it looks a little unconfortable. I like how frilly it is – but some of the hair seems over done. However, it's still jaw droppingly georgous.
http://www.lacarmina.com lacarmina

Holi Lime! haha! I bet we'll see a brand with that name in no time.
http://www.lacarmina.com lacarmina

I think Hime is beautiful too. I realize the posts may have come across as skewed toward Lolita, but actually I find both compelling…
http://www.myspace.com/demonic_vampyre LiTtLe_MiSs_PsYcHo

nicephotos! And I love those nails n the last pix!!!!!
Miko

omg those hime shoes are SO CUTE!!
is it just me, or do all the himes look the same? O.o [or are most of them just the same girl XD]
http://www.lacarmina.com lacarmina

Haha a bit of both! Most of the photos are of Keiko Mizoe, 24, a staffer in the Shinjuku Jesus Diamante store who regularly models for the brand, the magazine Koakuma Ageha, and sometimes even appears on TV.
http://primthings.blogspot.com/ chelsea

I think the ‘dress code’ for Hime style always looks much more limiting than lolita, mainly in colour and fabric patterns.
As for mixing them, I say mash it up, add a splah of colour(or black), and work your Holi/Lime creation!

http://www.lacarmina.com lacarmina

Holi Lime! haha! I bet we’ll see a brand with that name in no time.

http://cbardsley.blogspot.com/ Cheyanne

I deffinetly agree.
I find Hime-Kei is focused more on cute but sexy clothes – not to flashy, but not afraid to wear sexy high heels and show the shoulders. Typically there is more “expensive” jewlery.
Where as Lolita, its cute but a more innocent cute. More modest, and child-like. Almost always covering the shoulders, and as you said, much more Innocent shoes. Lolita jewlery is typically more child-like and cheap looking. Not saying it is cheap, but lolita is more plastic cupcakes rather than strings of diamonds and pearls.
http://nign.net nign

I know *nothing* about Hime Gyaru, but the Wall Street Journal report on the trend from last November might be worth a read. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122713804938242… It's written mostly by a Japanese with some minor problem (from a journalistic perpective) of not being able to place the phenamenon outside of a purely Japanese cultural context, but because it's less about fashion and more about it as a sociocultural thing, it provides some different insights.

My guess is that, for Japanese women, the Hime Gyaru thing is more about dreaming of becoming, like you said, Stepford Wives, regardless of one's age. I don't know about the differences of each category's general price points, but Hime Gyaru brands might be much higher, since they're more likely to be sold to failed Stepfords in their 30s and 40s (and older even).

Another thing: If you've seen or read classic Japanese girly court romance manga and anime, that's where the Hime Gyaru style inspirations come from, from the dresses to the hair and makeup. They literally transfrom themselves into those princessy characters and even scenes, down to the meaningless roses flying in the background.

I know very little about this genre of manga/ anime. Based on my scant knowledge, I think this perennial classic might be useful as reference?
English Wikipedia entry http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rose_of_Versai…
Japanese Wikipedia entry http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/ベルサイユのばら

Incidentally (or not), the appeal of becoming classic girly manga characters seems to be a hot selling point in Japanese female consumer market lately, or at least according to http://www.cscoutjapan.com/en/index.php/the-suc… I know several drugstore cosmetics brands that are doing this, including one that features Roses of Versailles characters that's selling like mad. http://www.creerbeaute.co.jp/versailles/index.html

Writing when just out of bed again…. I'm hoping I'm not writing s**t. :-/

Last but not least: Really cool juxtapositions and comparisons. I seem to be seeing the future of fashion magazines…. :)
Anonymous

Hime is very beautiful – but it looks a little unconfortable. I like how frilly it is – but some of the hair seems over done. However, it’s still jaw droppingly georgous.

http://www.lacarmina.com lacarmina

I think Hime is beautiful too. I realize the posts may have come across as skewed toward Lolita, but actually I find both compelling…

Cossette

Oh my, hime-gyaru. There is a whole lot of loathing between the Japanese lolitas and the himegyaru gals. Gyaru style and lolita style do not mix, and the people in those subcultures do not like each other. Seeing as hime-gyaru and lolita have alot of similarites, alot of people in the West are jumping on the bandwagon and doing hime-gyaru-lolita (huge hair, pearls, over-the-top dresses etc.) It's not bad, but I would rather have the subcultures be kept apart. A lot of the gyaru styles (makeup, attitude, etc) are transferred over to the himegyaru, and it just doesn't fit.
As hime-gyaru is a sub-set of gyaru, and lolitas do not like the gyaru, as they think that they are too dirty for lolita. Himegyaru carry items from lolita brands (BTSSB, AP) all the time, but you will be hard-pressed to find a lolita carrying a himegyaru brand item. Likewise, groups of lolita, and groups of himegyaru are seen, but never a lolita and himegyaru together are seen. Their is just a general dislike between the two. Whenever I see posts on the lolita communities about this, I can't help but think of the Wicked song, “What is this Feeling?”
“For your face/your voice/ your clothing!/ Let's just say/ I loathe it all/ every little bit how ever small/ makes my very flesh begin to crawl/ with simple utter loathing!”
That is how most lolitas and gyaru (and himegyaru) feel about each other. Personally, I like the fashions as seperate fashions, lolita on this side, himegyaru on the other. They are just too different. Lolitas are trying to be the elegant princess of the past while himgyaru want to be the rich, spoiled princesses of today. Hime lolitas want to look like Marie Antoinette, but himegyaru want to look like a Disney princess. Enough said.
Anyways, during my trip to Nagoya, they had a Liz Lisa (or was it La Parfait) and a Nagoya Girls in the same mall where the lolita brands were located. In the himegyaru stores, I noticed they were playing “Glamorous,” so, even in full lolita, I had to sing along!
And completely negating everything I just said, the sweet lolita who helped me get to the mall where the lolita stores where; upon arrival, walked off to the himegyaru-style brands. Or maybe she was just going to the bathroom, who knows?
http://www.myspace.com/demonic_vampyre LiTtLe_MiSs_PsYcHo

nicephotos! And I love those nails n the last pix!!!!!
Miko

omg those hime shoes are SO CUTE!!
is it just me, or do all the himes look the same? O.o [or are most of them just the same girl XD]

http://www.lacarmina.com lacarmina

Haha a bit of both! Most of the photos are of Keiko Mizoe, 24, a staffer in the Shinjuku Jesus Diamante store who regularly models for the brand, the magazine Koakuma Ageha, and sometimes even appears on TV.

http://cbardsley.blogspot.com/ Cheyanne

I deffinetly agree.
I find Hime-Kei is focused more on cute but sexy clothes – not to flashy, but not afraid to wear sexy high heels and show the shoulders. Typically there is more “expensive” jewlery.
Where as Lolita, its cute but a more innocent cute. More modest, and child-like. Almost always covering the shoulders, and as you said, much more Innocent shoes. Lolita jewlery is typically more child-like and cheap looking. Not saying it is cheap, but lolita is more plastic cupcakes rather than strings of diamonds and pearls.
http://nign.net nign

Refuting myself now…

If Hime Gyarus are basing their “storyline” on classic court romance manga, it's unlikely that they aim to become Stepford Wives.

From the way I see it, Stepfords are about doing everything perfectly so their life would become perfect too. In other words, they have to work on it and achieve it. In the court romance manga world, nobody does anything other than being royal and romantic. In that world, life is a decadently luxurious romantic drama, nothing more and nothing less. Everything exists in perfection and revolves around the protagonist. Roses would suddenly bloom around her out of nowhere just because she's smiling extra sweetly. In that world, life is a perfect journey with an endlessly perfect future waiting to happen.

The WSJ report features Mayumi Yamamoto, a 36-year-old married working woman Hime Gyaru (funny that the reporter refers to her as a “housewife” only), and that somehow reminds me of my mom. My mom is a perfect Stepford, in the sense of having an outwardly perfect life with very f**ked-up contents. She used to dress her age, but after hitting 50 and perhaps realizing that everything wrong in her life will remain wrong for the rest of it, she began basing her dress code on a magazine meant for unmarried career women in their late 20s to early 30s. That age range happens to be the time before everything in my mom's life began to go irreversibly wrong. Does she feel better about her actual life by reversing time like this? I don't know. But she seems to have become blind to 98% of her wrinkles after she began dressing thus.

If Mrs. Yamamoto can't be a manga princess in real life and if the world can't exist for her like it does for a manga princess, at least she can feel like one by dressing like one.
nign

I know *nothing* about Hime Gyaru, but the Wall Street Journal report on the trend from last November might be worth a read. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122713804938242481.html It’s written mostly by a Japanese with some minor problem (from a journalistic perpective) of not being able to place the phenomenon outside of a purely Japanese cultural context, but because it’s less about fashion and more about it as a sociocultural thing, it provides some different insights.

My guess is that, for Japanese women, the Hime Gyaru thing is more about dreaming of becoming, like you said, Stepford Wives, regardless of one’s age. I don’t know about the differences of each category’s general price points, but Hime Gyaru brands might be much higher, since they’re more likely to be sold to failed Stepfords in their 30s and 40s (and older even).

Another thing: If you’ve seen or read classic Japanese girly court romance manga and anime, that’s where the Hime Gyaru style inspirations come from, from the dresses to the hair and makeup. They literally transfrom themselves into those princessy (and not humanly possible-looking) characters and even scenes, down to the meaningless roses flying in the background, except in Hime Gyarus’ case, they are affixed to their shoes and dresses and wherever else they can stick them. These meaningless roses are very important stage props in this genre… reason unknown. They seem to convey a general sense of dreamy perfect beautiful romantic world-ness or something. (Sorry for being so disaparaging… I never really “got” this genre, however hard I tried as a child to comprehend those touted by publishers as absolute manga masterpieces.)

Based on my scant knowledge, I think this perennial classic might be useful as reference?
English Wikipedia entry http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rose_of_Versailles
Japanese Wikipedia entry http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/ベルサイユのばら

Incidentally (or not), the appeal of becoming classic girly manga characters seems to be a hot selling point in the Japanese female consumer market lately, or at least according to http://www.cscoutjapan.com/en/index.php/the-successful-tale-of-the-beautiful-skin-family/ I know several drugstore cosmetics brands that are doing this, including one that features Roses of Versailles characters that’s selling like mad. http://www.creerbeaute.co.jp/versailles/index.html

Writing when just out of bed again…. I’m hoping I’m not writing s**t. :-/

Last but not least: Really cool juxtapositions and comparisons. I seem to be seeing the future of online fashion magazine…. :)

nign

Refuting myself now…

If Hime Gyarus are basing their “storyline” on classic court romance manga, it’s unlikely that they aim to become Stepford Wives.

From the way I see it, Stepfords are about doing everything perfectly so their life would become perfect too. In other words, they have to work on it and achieve it. In the court romance manga world, nobody does anything other than being royal and romantic. In that world, life is a decadently luxurious romantic drama, nothing more and nothing less. Everything exists in perfection and revolves around the protagonist. Roses would suddenly bloom around her out of nowhere just because she’s smiling extra sweetly. In that world, life is a perfect journey with an endlessly perfect future waiting to happen.

The WSJ report features Mayumi Yamamoto, a 36-year-old married working-woman Hime Gyaru (funny that the reporter refers to her as a “housewife” only), and that somehow reminds me of my mom. My mom is a perfect Stepford, in the sense of having an outwardly perfect life with very f**ked-up contents. She used to dress her age, but after hitting 50 and perhaps realizing that everything wrong in her life will remain wrong for the rest of it, she began basing her dress code on a magazine meant for unmarried career women in their late 20s to early 30s. That age range happens to be the time before everything in my mom’s life began to go irreversibly wrong. Does she feel better about her actual life by reversing time like this? I don’t know. But she seems to have become blind to 98% of her wrinkles after she began dressing thus.

If Mrs. Yamamoto can’t be a manga princess in real life and if the world can’t exist for her like it does for a manga princess, at least she can feel like one by dressing like one.

I know I’m terribly biased because of what I’ve seen in my mom and also because I’ve had more than enough of seeing girls doing nothing and just wanting to be Princesses with a capital P, but I think the court romance manga reference is perhaps not too off-the-mark.

http://www.lacarmina.com lacarmina

Hm, I also see how they’re inspired by manga princesses, like Rose of Versailles: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/b7/RoV_illustration.jpg

nign

Not being a Lolita/ GothLoli myself, I’ve always wondered, what’s the “storyline” behind the styles? You know, like in the “FRUiTS” book, everyone would give the photographer his/her style inspiration along with handle, age, etc. The inspiration can be vague and atmospheric or specific and narrative. Do you usually have a “storyline” when you dress? How about other GothLolis? Or is it so subconscious it’s futile to name?

http://www.lacarmina.com lacarmina

Oh that’s an interesting question. The Kera snaps on Marui’s LiveJ also come with a storyline or inspiration or quote.

Someones, a line pops in my head as I’m dressing up (or planning an outfit) – “an apt descriptoid” that sums up the look. Sometimes it doesn’t… how about everyone else?
nign

Ouch ouch. Seems I can totally skip on scanning Kera’s street snaps from now on.. I don’t read any Tokyo street fashion blog besides “Style from Tokyo,” which is TUNE-esque and more like how I dress.

The “storyline” inspiration thing seems to be a common cultural practice among Japan’s fashion types.

Do you know the manga artist Moyoco Anno? One of her mangas, “Jelly Beans,” is about a high school girl’s journey from a fashion fan to a fashion designer. It’s a concise illustraion of how the Japanese conceptualize fashion, which helps a lot with understanding these stuff. :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moyoco_Anno
nign

Correcting myself…

What I called “storyline” is commonly referred to as “theme.”

A “theme” can be an atmosphere, a narrative, or an abstract creative concept, such as “monotone,” “volume,” etc.

Cossette

Oh my, hime-gyaru. There is a whole lot of loathing between the Japanese lolitas and the himegyaru gals. Gyaru style and lolita style do not mix, and the people in those subcultures do not like each other. Seeing as hime-gyaru and lolita have alot of similarites, alot of people in the West are jumping on the bandwagon and doing hime-gyaru-lolita (huge hair, pearls, over-the-top dresses etc.) It’s not bad, but I would rather have the subcultures be kept apart. A lot of the gyaru styles (makeup, attitude, etc) are transferred over to the himegyaru, and it just doesn’t fit.
As hime-gyaru is a sub-set of gyaru, and lolitas do not like the gyaru, as they think that they are too dirty for lolita. Himegyaru carry items from lolita brands (BTSSB, AP) all the time, but you will be hard-pressed to find a lolita carrying a himegyaru brand item. Likewise, groups of lolita, and groups of himegyaru are seen, but never a lolita and himegyaru together are seen. Their is just a general dislike between the two. Whenever I see posts on the lolita communities about this, I can’t help but think of the Wicked song, “What is this Feeling?”
“For your face/your voice/ your clothing!/ Let’s just say/ I loathe it all/ every little bit how ever small/ makes my very flesh begin to crawl/ with simple utter loathing!”
That is how most lolitas and gyaru (and himegyaru) feel about each other. Personally, I like the fashions as seperate fashions, lolita on this side, himegyaru on the other. They are just too different. Lolitas are trying to be the elegant princess of the past while himgyaru want to be the rich, spoiled princesses of today. Hime lolitas want to look like Marie Antoinette, but himegyaru want to look like a Disney princess. Enough said.
Anyways, during my trip to Nagoya, they had a Liz Lisa (or was it La Parfait) and a Nagoya Girls in the same mall where the lolita brands were located. In the himegyaru stores, I noticed they were playing “Glamorous,” so, even in full lolita, I had to sing along!
And completely negating everything I just said, the sweet lolita who helped me get to the mall where the lolita stores where; upon arrival, walked off to the himegyaru-style brands. Or maybe she was just going to the bathroom, who knows?

http://www.lacarmina.com lacarmina

I also couldn’t see much cross-over on the Lolita side; none of the Hime garments I posted above would integrate seamlessly into a Lolita outfit, I think.

Did you check out the Jesus Diamante store in the basement of Marui Young Shinjuku? The storegirls spooked me a little!

まるめるかどぅ

Pretty×2♪〜o(^▽^o)(o^▽^)o〜♪

I like +.☆Princess☆ﾟ+ very much!!(=⌒ー⌒=)
Emma

I don't personally care much for gyaru or hime gyaru. The only hime elements that I like are the ones that are similar to lolita… and of course I also love the exaggerated heels with roses down the middle xD They're too decadent to hate!
Anyway – in general I don't find hime appealing at all. I think it's kawaii overdone, it's too much at once, so it loses its edge and charm. I like the “twist” of lolita, Gothic Lolita in particular, and I don't really see that twist in hime at all. Sure, it is beautiful, but as most beautiful things, it seems so blank and boring at the same time. It's beauty for the simple purpose of beauty and in my eyes that pretty much ruins the beauty of it…
まるめるかどぅ

Pretty×2♪〜o(^▽^o)(o^▽^)o〜♪

I like +.☆Princess☆ﾟ+ very much!!(=⌒ー⌒=)
Emma

I don’t personally care much for gyaru or hime gyaru. The only hime elements that I like are the ones that are similar to lolita… and of course I also love the exaggerated heels with roses down the middle xD They’re too decadent to hate!
Anyway – in general I don’t find hime appealing at all. I think it’s kawaii overdone, it’s too much at once, so it loses its edge and charm. I like the “twist” of lolita, Gothic Lolita in particular, and I don’t really see that twist in hime at all. Sure, it is beautiful, but as most beautiful things, it seems so blank and boring at the same time. It’s beauty for the simple purpose of beauty and in my eyes that pretty much ruins the beauty of it…

http://www.lacarmina.com lacarmina

Hahah the shoes are my favorite as well!

Violet_Rimbaud

I think the whole mix and match-ing of the two styles is not only very lolita in it's self but incredibly Japan. I think sometimes the hard core followers of Lolita (You, carmina, being exempt) forget what this whole style started as ; Girls of Japan trying to break free of the buisness, routine, uniform obsessed nation. When we see these two crazy, different styles coming together, not only should we discuss but we should embrace. Different is never bad and just because someone doesn't follow the rules doesn't mean that they should be cast out of the circle of love! <3
I remember a lolita of the week who combined multiple styles and lolita and she said she got ridiculed for it :(. I certanly don't think we should go spending 3000$ on clothes and shoes a month, but I think that hime makeup would make a nifty contrast to all the fine detail and pink cotton that goes into a Baby dress.

wow long comment much! *sorry for any typos!
nb

Y'know- I was too distracted by your lack of historical fashion reference than focusing on the article itself.
“The Angelic Pretty dress has a childlike air and 17-19th century tailoring,…”
Tailoring has to do with construction and the methods used of that time. There is NO evidence of that- or what you're specifically referring to- Is it 17th or 19th century women's or children's clothing? In either instance it would be false, possibly a familiar silhouette but nothing alike in any sense.

This historical reference also throws me…
“I could picture the Angelic Pretty top (center) on a Jane Austen heroine.”
The period Jane Austen was from, did not cover themselves conservatively as this blouse would suggest. They were to look greek like, create appreciation again for the female figure and their large hips. Promote flirts and blushes with obvious framing of the bodice by a square neckline and using wispy fabrics to emboss the figure with shadows and details. Wearing a ruffled high collared blouse does not denote this- and I find it hard for any heroine of Jane Austen openly embracing it.

As far as the discussion is concerned- HimeGyaru seems more fun and less constricting- but it's expensive for cheaply made items. You could say the same for Lolita as well as far as price, but the rules or overwhelming. I call it an amicable draw.
http://kagitsune.deviantart.com kagitsune

I think lolita and Hime have some excellent cross-over possibilities. I think sweet/classical lolitas could take a cue from the just-barely-under-the-top roses and ruffles of the HIme, while the HIme could learn a couple lessons in sweetness and modesty from the lolitas in general. :) Great style comparison, Carmina… this really brings a lot to light. I'm sure this page will be receiving a lot more views as the two styles start to receive more publicity and the “debate” heats up. :)
http://kagitsune.deviantart.com kagitsune

THIS.
Anonymous

I think the whole mix and match-ing of the two styles is not only very lolita in it’s self but incredibly Japan. I think sometimes the hard core followers of Lolita (You, carmina, being exempt) forget what this whole style started as ; Girls of Japan trying to break free of the buisness, routine, uniform obsessed nation. When we see these two crazy, different styles coming together, not only should we discuss but we should embrace. Different is never bad and just because someone doesn’t follow the rules doesn’t mean that they should be cast out of the circle of love! <3
I remember a lolita of the week who combined multiple styles and lolita and she said she got ridiculed for it :(. I certanly don't think we should go spending 3000$ on clothes and shoes a month, but I think that hime makeup would make a nifty contrast to all the fine detail and pink cotton that goes into a Baby dress.

wow long comment much! *sorry for any typos!

http://kagitsune.deviantart.com kagitsune

THIS.

http://www.lacarmina.com lacarmina

… is a non sequitur? hahah

I think the GL you’re referring to is Nekokan: http://www.lacarmina.com/blog/2008/10/gothloli-of-the-week-43-nekokan/

“Some western lolitas have the wrong idea about real lolita and I’ve heard some pretty crazy comments and, like I said, had some say me and my friends can’t count as lolita. Fashion is a personal style, so don’t dress a certain way just because someone said, “Pick one – Decora or Lolita? You can’t have both” – because if you want to, you can.”

Anonymous

exactly!

Yueh

I love the nails!! :O
Violet_Rimbaud

what?
http://www.lacarmina.com lacarmina

Hm, I also see how they're inspired by manga princesses, like Rose of Versailles: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/b7/R…
http://www.lacarmina.com lacarmina

I also couldn't see much cross-over on the Lolita side; none of the Hime garments I posted above would integrate seamlessly into a Lolita outfit, I think.

Did you check out the Jesus Diamante store in the basement of Marui Young Shinjuku? The storegirls spooked me a little!
http://www.lacarmina.com lacarmina

Hahah the shoes are my favorite as well!
http://www.lacarmina.com lacarmina

Hm, fair points. You're right that I meant silhouettes and details reminiscent of the 17-19th century. And yeah, I don't know what I was thinking about the Austen one hahah. Too tired to think straight, I suppose. ;)
http://www.lacarmina.com lacarmina

… is a non sequitur? hahah

I think the GL you're referring to is Nekokan: http://www.lacarmina.com/blog/2008/10/gothloli-…

“Some western lolitas have the wrong idea about real lolita and I’ve heard some pretty crazy comments and, like I said, had some say me and my friends can’t count as lolita. Fashion is a personal style, so don’t dress a certain way just because someone said, “Pick one – Decora or Lolita? You can’t have both” – because if you want to, you can.”
nb

Y’know- I was too distracted by your lack of historical fashion reference than focusing on the article itself.
“The Angelic Pretty dress has a childlike air and 17-19th century tailoring,…”
Tailoring has to do with construction and the methods used of that time. There is NO evidence of that- or what you’re specifically referring to- Is it 17th or 19th century women’s or children’s clothing? In either instance it would be false, possibly a familiar silhouette but nothing alike in any sense.

This historical reference also throws me…
“I could picture the Angelic Pretty top (center) on a Jane Austen heroine.”
The period Jane Austen was from, did not cover themselves conservatively as this blouse would suggest. They were to look greek like, create appreciation again for the female figure and their large hips. Promote flirts and blushes with obvious framing of the bodice by a square neckline and using wispy fabrics to emboss the figure with shadows and details. Wearing a ruffled high collared blouse does not denote this- and I find it hard for any heroine of Jane Austen openly embracing it.

As far as the discussion is concerned- HimeGyaru seems more fun and less constricting- but it’s expensive for cheaply made items. You could say the same for Lolita as well as far as price, but the rules or overwhelming. I call it an amicable draw.

http://www.lacarmina.com lacarmina

Hm, fair points. You’re right that I meant silhouettes and details reminiscent of the 17-19th century. And yeah, I don’t know what I was thinking about the Austen one hahah. Too tired to think straight, I suppose. ;)

http://kagitsune.deviantart.com kagitsune

I think lolita and Hime have some excellent cross-over possibilities. I think sweet/classical lolitas could take a cue from the just-barely-under-the-top roses and ruffles of the HIme, while the HIme could learn a couple lessons in sweetness and modesty from the lolitas in general. :) Great style comparison, Carmina… this really brings a lot to light. I’m sure this page will be receiving a lot more views as the two styles start to receive more publicity and the “debate” heats up. :)
Yueh

I love the nails!! :O
Anonymous

The nails are definitely amazing you can’t get it done anywhere near me in Canada though :(. and what was kagitsune saying “THAT” for? I’m cunfuzzled.

http://www.lacarmina.com lacarmina

You can try painting on designs and adding stick-ons… it’s quite fun!

http://nign.net nign

Not being a Lolita/ GothLoli myself, I've always wondered, what's the “storyline” behind the styles? You know, like in the “FRUiTS” book, everyone would give the photographer his/her style inspiration along with handle, age, etc. The inspiration can be vague and atmospheric or specific and narrative. Do you usually have a “storyline” when you dress? How about other GothLolis? Or is it so subconscious it's futile to name?
Violet_Rimbaud

exactly!
http://www.lacarmina.com lacarmina

You can try painting on designs and adding stick-ons… it's quite fun!
http://www.lacarmina.com lacarmina

Oh that's an interesting question. The Kera snaps on Marui's LiveJ also come with a storyline or inspiration or quote.

Someones, a line pops in my head as I'm dressing up (or planning an outfit) – “an apt descriptoid” that sums up the look. Sometimes it doesn't… how about everyone else?
http://nign.net nign

Ouch ouch. Seems I can totally skip on scanning Kera's street snaps from now on.. I don't read any Tokyo street fashion blog besides “Style from Tokyo,” which is TUNE-esque and more like how I dress.

The “storyline” inspiration thing seems a common cultural practice among Japan's fashion types.

Do you know the manga artist Moyoco Anno? One of her mangas, “Jelly Beans,” is about a high school girl's journey from a fashion fan to a fashion designer. It's a concise illustraion of how the Japanese conceptualize fashion, which helps a lot with understanding these stuff. :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moyoco_Anno
Dragonswyng

their hair gives me horrible 80's flashbacks lol…and reminds me of the mom on Married with Children. its just a mess whereas Loli hair is carefully done and elegant. but the Hime shoes rock. and I don't see any problem with combining things so long as you're honest about not being pure (referring to the look, ie Lolita or Hime). half the big picture is how you carry yourself after all.
Dragonswyng

their hair gives me horrible 80′s flashbacks lol…and reminds me of the mom on Married with Children. its just a mess whereas Loli hair is carefully done and elegant. but the Hime shoes rock. and I don’t see any problem with combining things so long as you’re honest about not being pure (referring to the look, ie Lolita or Hime). half the big picture is how you carry yourself after all.
http://nign.net nign

Correcting myself…

What I called “storyline” is commonly referred to as “theme.”

A “theme” can be an atmosphere, a narrative, or an abstract creative concept, such as “monotone,” “volume,” etc.
http://www.sojones.com/hiphop-clothing/baby-phat/ hip hop clothing

So very cute,looks so much of a doll if you had to wear it.I think my daughter will love it for sure.Me as a mother,wanted to wear it by my daughter and presto she is my barbie doll in my life.
http://www.sojones.com/hiphop-clothing/baby-phat/ hip hop clothing

So very cute,looks so much of a doll if you had to wear it.I think my daughter will love it for sure.Me as a mother,wanted to wear it by my daughter and presto she is my barbie doll in my life.
http://www.sojones.com/hiphop-clothing/baby-phat/ hip hop clothing

So very cute,looks so much of a doll if you had to wear it.I think my daughter will love it for sure.Me as a mother,wanted to wear it by my daughter and presto she is my barbie doll in my life.

DIFFERENCES BETWEEN PRINCESS HIME AND GOTHIC LOLITA: JAPANESE STYLE TRIBE BREAKDOWN.

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